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	<title>Comments on: Network Theory (Part 19)</title>
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	<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/</link>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrea wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
This is why I prefer to say, when I put to zero the time-derivative in the l.h.s. of a master equation, that I’m looking for the “stationary solution”, not the “equilibrium” one, reserving the word equilibrium only to stationary solutions which are invariant for time-reversal.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That makes sense.  This series has not mentioned &#039;detailed balance&#039;, which is indeed different than &#039;complex balance&#039;.  But Jacob has been thinking about time reversal symmetry lately, so he&#039;ll be interested to read these comments of yours (as was I).

Thanks for the reference to Shnakenberg!

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Is there a typo or am I missing something?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Thanks for catching that!

The problem was that I picked a hard notation to remember: the reaction with rate constant $latex \alpha$ &lt;i&gt;reduces&lt;/i&gt; the number of $latex A$ atoms.  By the time I wrote the last section I&#039;d forgotten this and mentally switched to the more reasonable convention where the bigger $latex \alpha$ is, the more $latex A$ atoms there are in equilibrium, while making $latex \beta$ bigger makes more $latex B$ molecules.

In fact I wrote down the rate equation based on that other more reasonable convention, and my whole discussion with Greg Egan was based on that!  

I like that other convention better, and I&#039;m turning all these articles into a book.   So, right now I just rewrote this article to use that other convention.  

Of course now there are probably more new typos. &lt;img src=&quot;http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/sm_upset.gif&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrea wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
This is why I prefer to say, when I put to zero the time-derivative in the l.h.s. of a master equation, that I’m looking for the “stationary solution”, not the “equilibrium” one, reserving the word equilibrium only to stationary solutions which are invariant for time-reversal.
</p></blockquote>
<p>That makes sense.  This series has not mentioned &#8216;detailed balance&#8217;, which is indeed different than &#8216;complex balance&#8217;.  But Jacob has been thinking about time reversal symmetry lately, so he&#8217;ll be interested to read these comments of yours (as was I).</p>
<p>Thanks for the reference to Shnakenberg!</p>
<blockquote><p>
Is there a typo or am I missing something?
</p></blockquote>
<p>Thanks for catching that!</p>
<p>The problem was that I picked a hard notation to remember: the reaction with rate constant <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> <i>reduces</i> the number of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A' title='A' class='latex' /> atoms.  By the time I wrote the last section I&#8217;d forgotten this and mentally switched to the more reasonable convention where the bigger <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha' title='&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> is, the more <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A' title='A' class='latex' /> atoms there are in equilibrium, while making <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;beta' title='&#92;beta' class='latex' /> bigger makes more <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=B&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='B' title='B' class='latex' /> molecules.</p>
<p>In fact I wrote down the rate equation based on that other more reasonable convention, and my whole discussion with Greg Egan was based on that!  </p>
<p>I like that other convention better, and I&#8217;m turning all these articles into a book.   So, right now I just rewrote this article to use that other convention.  </p>
<p>Of course now there are probably more new typos. <img src="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/emoticons/sm_upset.gif" alt="" /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andrea Puglisi</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16975</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea Puglisi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 09:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16975</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, very intriguing post (and beautiful series, this one on network theory). There is however a hidden symmetry that you are apparently ignoring (not a continuous one, though): the one for time-reversal. At least you did not comment its existence in your particular example. 

Chemical networks often are not symmetric under time-reversal, because they represent phenomena out of thermal equilibrium. This is why I prefer to say, when I put to zero the time-derivative in the l.h.s. of a master equation, that I&#039;m looking for the &quot;stationary solution&quot;, not the &quot;equilibrium&quot; one, reserving the word equilibrium only to stationary solutions which are invariant for time-reversal (in order to guarantee &quot;consistency&quot; with the idea of thermodynamic equilibrium). This symmetry allows you to map the master equation into a Schroedinger-like equation with a symmetric operator (the hamiltonian). Usually this is not possible and one has to symmetrize the operator (or to find left/right basis etc.). In the master equation the time-reversal symmetry appears as the so-called &quot;detailed balance&quot;  which, it seems to me, is different from the complex balance concept. In your post it was perfectly legit to use the word equilibrium, but it comes as a word totally equivalent to 

$latex \displaystyle{ \frac{d}{d t}\psi_{m,n}(t)=0 } $ 

which is not.

Time-reversal is related to the absence of closed loops (indeed in your example the diffusion occurs over a single line). Basically you are at equilibrium if there is only one route connecting a state with another state. If there are more than one route, it is possible to break the time-reversal symmetry by having a stationary solution with a non-zero probability current flowing in your network. There is a very elegant theory of non-equilibrium master equation in terms of closed loops in the chemical network, done by J. Schnakenberg, where the network is decomposed in &quot;fundamental loops&quot; (such that a current in any edge is the sum of currents in the fundamental loops including that edge). You can see

&#8226; J. Schnakenberg, &lt;i&gt;Rev. Mod. Phys.&lt;/i&gt; &lt;b&gt;48&lt;/b&gt; (1978), 571.

I have however a problem, because detailed balance means putting to zero each &quot;term&quot; of the sum, if you write the master equation as a sum of terms each one representing the (bi-directional) connection between two states, e.g.

$latex  \displaystyle{ \frac{d}{dt}\psi_{z}(t) = \sum_{z&#039;} [W(z&#039; \to z)\psi_{z&#039;}(t)-W(z \to z&#039;)\psi_{z}(t)] }  $

where $latex z$ is a state (node) of the network, which in your notation is a couple $latex (m,n)$. In your notation this should correspond to ask being zero separately the two couples of terms

$latex \alpha (m+2)(m+1) \psi_{m+2,n-1}-\beta n \psi_{m,n}$ 

and 

$latex \beta(n+1)\psi_{m-2,n+1}-\alpha m (m-1) \psi_{mn}$

If I use your solution obtained with the ACK theorem I find that it satisfies detailed balance but with $latex x_1^2/x_2=\beta/\alpha$ which is slightly different than your $latex x_1^2/x_2=\alpha/\beta$. Is there a typo or am I missing something?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, very intriguing post (and beautiful series, this one on network theory). There is however a hidden symmetry that you are apparently ignoring (not a continuous one, though): the one for time-reversal. At least you did not comment its existence in your particular example. </p>
<p>Chemical networks often are not symmetric under time-reversal, because they represent phenomena out of thermal equilibrium. This is why I prefer to say, when I put to zero the time-derivative in the l.h.s. of a master equation, that I&#8217;m looking for the &#8220;stationary solution&#8221;, not the &#8220;equilibrium&#8221; one, reserving the word equilibrium only to stationary solutions which are invariant for time-reversal (in order to guarantee &#8220;consistency&#8221; with the idea of thermodynamic equilibrium). This symmetry allows you to map the master equation into a Schroedinger-like equation with a symmetric operator (the hamiltonian). Usually this is not possible and one has to symmetrize the operator (or to find left/right basis etc.). In the master equation the time-reversal symmetry appears as the so-called &#8220;detailed balance&#8221;  which, it seems to me, is different from the complex balance concept. In your post it was perfectly legit to use the word equilibrium, but it comes as a word totally equivalent to </p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%7B+%5Cfrac%7Bd%7D%7Bd+t%7D%5Cpsi_%7Bm%2Cn%7D%28t%29%3D0+%7D+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{d}{d t}&#92;psi_{m,n}(t)=0 } ' title='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{d}{d t}&#92;psi_{m,n}(t)=0 } ' class='latex' /> </p>
<p>which is not.</p>
<p>Time-reversal is related to the absence of closed loops (indeed in your example the diffusion occurs over a single line). Basically you are at equilibrium if there is only one route connecting a state with another state. If there are more than one route, it is possible to break the time-reversal symmetry by having a stationary solution with a non-zero probability current flowing in your network. There is a very elegant theory of non-equilibrium master equation in terms of closed loops in the chemical network, done by J. Schnakenberg, where the network is decomposed in &#8220;fundamental loops&#8221; (such that a current in any edge is the sum of currents in the fundamental loops including that edge). You can see</p>
<p>&bull; J. Schnakenberg, <i>Rev. Mod. Phys.</i> <b>48</b> (1978), 571.</p>
<p>I have however a problem, because detailed balance means putting to zero each &#8220;term&#8221; of the sum, if you write the master equation as a sum of terms each one representing the (bi-directional) connection between two states, e.g.</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%7B+%5Cfrac%7Bd%7D%7Bdt%7D%5Cpsi_%7Bz%7D%28t%29+%3D+%5Csum_%7Bz%27%7D+%5BW%28z%27+%5Cto+z%29%5Cpsi_%7Bz%27%7D%28t%29-W%28z+%5Cto+z%27%29%5Cpsi_%7Bz%7D%28t%29%5D+%7D++&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{d}{dt}&#92;psi_{z}(t) = &#92;sum_{z&#039;} [W(z&#039; &#92;to z)&#92;psi_{z&#039;}(t)-W(z &#92;to z&#039;)&#92;psi_{z}(t)] }  ' title='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{d}{dt}&#92;psi_{z}(t) = &#92;sum_{z&#039;} [W(z&#039; &#92;to z)&#92;psi_{z&#039;}(t)-W(z &#92;to z&#039;)&#92;psi_{z}(t)] }  ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>where <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=z&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='z' title='z' class='latex' /> is a state (node) of the network, which in your notation is a couple <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28m%2Cn%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(m,n)' title='(m,n)' class='latex' />. In your notation this should correspond to ask being zero separately the two couples of terms</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Calpha+%28m%2B2%29%28m%2B1%29+%5Cpsi_%7Bm%2B2%2Cn-1%7D-%5Cbeta+n+%5Cpsi_%7Bm%2Cn%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;alpha (m+2)(m+1) &#92;psi_{m+2,n-1}-&#92;beta n &#92;psi_{m,n}' title='&#92;alpha (m+2)(m+1) &#92;psi_{m+2,n-1}-&#92;beta n &#92;psi_{m,n}' class='latex' /> </p>
<p>and </p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbeta%28n%2B1%29%5Cpsi_%7Bm-2%2Cn%2B1%7D-%5Calpha+m+%28m-1%29+%5Cpsi_%7Bmn%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;beta(n+1)&#92;psi_{m-2,n+1}-&#92;alpha m (m-1) &#92;psi_{mn}' title='&#92;beta(n+1)&#92;psi_{m-2,n+1}-&#92;alpha m (m-1) &#92;psi_{mn}' class='latex' /></p>
<p>If I use your solution obtained with the ACK theorem I find that it satisfies detailed balance but with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_1%5E2%2Fx_2%3D%5Cbeta%2F%5Calpha&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_1^2/x_2=&#92;beta/&#92;alpha' title='x_1^2/x_2=&#92;beta/&#92;alpha' class='latex' /> which is slightly different than your <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_1%5E2%2Fx_2%3D%5Calpha%2F%5Cbeta&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_1^2/x_2=&#92;alpha/&#92;beta' title='x_1^2/x_2=&#92;alpha/&#92;beta' class='latex' />. Is there a typo or am I missing something?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16971</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2012 08:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, I think that&#039;s an old one!  Fixed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, I think that&#8217;s an old one!  Fixed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: richardattengift</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16958</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[richardattengift]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 19:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16958</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And another typo (or a new one ;-) : after &quot;A little calculation shows&quot; $latex N_B$ should have eigenvalue $latex n$.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And another typo (or a new one ;-) : after &#8220;A little calculation shows&#8221; <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=N_B&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='N_B' title='N_B' class='latex' /> should have eigenvalue <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' />.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16944</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2012 10:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some of the equations in this post look better in the version &lt;a href=&quot;http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks/networks_19.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on my website&lt;/a&gt;.   This version also has the complete answer for Puzzle 3 nicely written up.

You can get the &lt;a href=&quot;http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;whole series&lt;/a&gt; on my website.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the equations in this post look better in the version <a href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks/networks_19.html" rel="nofollow">on my website</a>.   This version also has the complete answer for Puzzle 3 nicely written up.</p>
<p>You can get the <a href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/networks/" rel="nofollow">whole series</a> on my website.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 19:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16932</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[More abstractly, according to the theory of Lie, action under the symmetry group, associated with the conserved quantity of the underlying system, maps solutions to solutions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More abstractly, according to the theory of Lie, action under the symmetry group, associated with the conserved quantity of the underlying system, maps solutions to solutions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16916</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 12:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But if you prefer, you can just think of it as a fact about Poisson distributions: take the Poisson distribution with some mean, multiply it by an exponential, and you get a new Poisson distribution with a new mean.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if you prefer, you can just think of it as a fact about Poisson distributions: take the Poisson distribution with some mean, multiply it by an exponential, and you get a new Poisson distribution with a new mean.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16913</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16913</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I did to you the same thing that annoyed Jamie: keep expanding my original reply to your comment.  The last two paragraphs in my reply above note that this curious (but not really paradoxical, and ultimately perfectly reasonable) phenomenon is something we&#039;ve seen before in quantum mechanics.  We&#039;re now seeing its analogue in stochastic mechanics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did to you the same thing that annoyed Jamie: keep expanding my original reply to your comment.  The last two paragraphs in my reply above note that this curious (but not really paradoxical, and ultimately perfectly reasonable) phenomenon is something we&#8217;ve seen before in quantum mechanics.  We&#8217;re now seeing its analogue in stochastic mechanics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Greg Egan</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16912</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Egan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess what confused me is that for the Anderson–Craciun–Kurtz solution $latex \Psi$, if the number of atoms of $latex A$ is $latex m$ and the number of molecules of $latex B$ is $latex n$, then $latex (\bar{m}, \bar{n}) = (x_1, x_2)$.  So if $latex k=m+2n$, we have $latex \bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2$.

If we look at the components $latex \Psi_k$ of $latex \Psi$ in the eigenspaces $latex L_k$ with definite values for $latex k$, the symmetry $latex \exp(s O)$ will take each $latex \Psi_k$ to another vector in $latex L_k$.  But the relative size of these components won&#039;t be preserved, so I shouldn&#039;t expect $latex \bar{k}$ to be preserved.

On the other hand, $latex \exp(s O)$ applied to an individual $latex \Psi_k$ will certainly preserve the &lt;i&gt;definite&lt;/i&gt; value of $latex k$.  But in that case, we no longer have $latex \bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2$.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what confused me is that for the Anderson–Craciun–Kurtz solution <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CPsi&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Psi' title='&#92;Psi' class='latex' />, if the number of atoms of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A' title='A' class='latex' /> is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=m&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='m' title='m' class='latex' /> and the number of molecules of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=B&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='B' title='B' class='latex' /> is <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='n' title='n' class='latex' />, then <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28%5Cbar%7Bm%7D%2C+%5Cbar%7Bn%7D%29+%3D+%28x_1%2C+x_2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(&#92;bar{m}, &#92;bar{n}) = (x_1, x_2)' title='(&#92;bar{m}, &#92;bar{n}) = (x_1, x_2)' class='latex' />.  So if <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3Dm%2B2n&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k=m+2n' title='k=m+2n' class='latex' />, we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbar%7Bk%7D+%3D+x_1+%2B+2x_2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2' title='&#92;bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>If we look at the components <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CPsi_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Psi_k' title='&#92;Psi_k' class='latex' /> of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CPsi&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Psi' title='&#92;Psi' class='latex' /> in the eigenspaces <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=L_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='L_k' title='L_k' class='latex' /> with definite values for <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k' title='k' class='latex' />, the symmetry <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cexp%28s+O%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;exp(s O)' title='&#92;exp(s O)' class='latex' /> will take each <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CPsi_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Psi_k' title='&#92;Psi_k' class='latex' /> to another vector in <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=L_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='L_k' title='L_k' class='latex' />.  But the relative size of these components won&#8217;t be preserved, so I shouldn&#8217;t expect <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbar%7Bk%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;bar{k}' title='&#92;bar{k}' class='latex' /> to be preserved.</p>
<p>On the other hand, <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cexp%28s+O%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;exp(s O)' title='&#92;exp(s O)' class='latex' /> applied to an individual <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CPsi_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Psi_k' title='&#92;Psi_k' class='latex' /> will certainly preserve the <i>definite</i> value of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='k' title='k' class='latex' />.  But in that case, we no longer have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cbar%7Bk%7D+%3D+x_1+%2B+2x_2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2' title='&#92;bar{k} = x_1 + 2x_2' class='latex' />.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/network-theory-part-19/#comment-16911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 10:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=10710#comment-16911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Greg wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I think the symmetry $latex \exp(s O)$ maps the equilibrium solution of the master equation associated with the solution $latex (x_1, x_2)$ of the rate equation to that associated with $latex (e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)$.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right!

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Clearly the equation 

$latex \displaystyle{ \frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = \frac{\alpha}{\beta}} $

is still satisfied by the new concentrations $latex x_1&#039;=e^s x_1$ and $latex x_2&#039;=e^{2s} x_2$.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right!  I feel like rhapsodizing about this a bit:

We&#039;re studying a diatomic gas in equilibrium, assuming fixed rates for the reactions

$latex A + A \to A_2$

and 

$latex A_2 \to A + A$

Of course these rates will depend on various things, but we&#039;re treating them as fixed.

The rate equation lets us find the equilibrium in the limit of large numbers of atoms.  In this limit, we&#039;ve seen the number of diatomic molecules is proportional to the &lt;i&gt;square&lt;/i&gt; of the number of lone atoms.    So, the set of equilibria forms half a parabola:

$latex \displaystyle{ \frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = \frac{\alpha}{\beta}, \qquad x_1, x_2 \ge 0 } $

There&#039;s a one-parameter group of symmetries:

$latex (x_1, x_2) \mapsto (e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)$

that maps this parabola to itself.  For example, we can multiply the number of lone atoms by 1.5 and multiply the number of molecules by 2.25.  

More surprisingly, this symmetry exists even when we consider small numbers of atoms and molecules, where we treat these numbers as integers instead of real numbers.  If we have 3 atoms, we can&#039;t multiply the number of atoms by 1.5.  So this is a bit shocking at first!

The trick is to treat the gas stochastically using the master equation rather than deterministically using the rate equation.  What our symmetry does is multiply the relative probability of finding our container of gas in a given state by a factor of $latex e^s$ for each lone atom, and by a factor of $latex e^{2s}$ for each molecule.

This symmetry commutes with time evolution as given by the master equation.  And for probability distributions that are products of Poisson distributions, this symmetry has the effect of multiplying the &lt;i&gt;mean&lt;/i&gt; number of lone atoms by $latex e^s$, and the &lt;i&gt;mean&lt;/i&gt; number of molecules by $latex e^{2s}$.

But as you note, this symmetry the property that if we start in a state with a &lt;i&gt;definite&lt;/i&gt; total number of atoms (that is, lone atoms plus twice the number of molecules), it will map us to another state with the same total number of molecules!  

And if we start in a state with a definite number of lone atoms &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; a definite number of molecules, the symmetry will leave this state completely unchanged!

These facts sound paradoxical at first, but of course they&#039;re not.  They&#039;re just a bit weird.

In fact they&#039;re a lot like this other weird fact.  If we take a quantum system and start it off in an eigenstate of energy, it will never change, except for an unobservable phase.  Every state is a superposition of energy eigenstates.  So you might think that nothing can ever change in quantum mechanics.  But that&#039;s wrong: the phases that are unobservable in a single energy eigenstate become observable &lt;i&gt;relative&lt;/i&gt; phases in a superposition.

Indeed the math is exactly the same, except now we&#039;re multiplying relative probabilities by positive real numbers, instead of multiplying relative amplitudes by complex numbers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
I think the symmetry <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cexp%28s+O%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;exp(s O)' title='&#92;exp(s O)' class='latex' /> maps the equilibrium solution of the master equation associated with the solution <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_1%2C+x_2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_1, x_2)' title='(x_1, x_2)' class='latex' /> of the rate equation to that associated with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28e%5Es+x_1%2C+e%5E%7B2s%7D+x_2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)' title='(e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)' class='latex' />.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Right!</p>
<blockquote><p>
Clearly the equation </p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%7B+%5Cfrac%7Bx_1%5E2%7D%7Bx_2%7D+%3D+%5Cfrac%7B%5Calpha%7D%7B%5Cbeta%7D%7D+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = &#92;frac{&#92;alpha}{&#92;beta}} ' title='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = &#92;frac{&#92;alpha}{&#92;beta}} ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>is still satisfied by the new concentrations <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_1%27%3De%5Es+x_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_1&#039;=e^s x_1' title='x_1&#039;=e^s x_1' class='latex' /> and <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=x_2%27%3De%5E%7B2s%7D+x_2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='x_2&#039;=e^{2s} x_2' title='x_2&#039;=e^{2s} x_2' class='latex' />.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Right!  I feel like rhapsodizing about this a bit:</p>
<p>We&#8217;re studying a diatomic gas in equilibrium, assuming fixed rates for the reactions</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A+%2B+A+%5Cto+A_2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A + A &#92;to A_2' title='A + A &#92;to A_2' class='latex' /></p>
<p>and </p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=A_2+%5Cto+A+%2B+A&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='A_2 &#92;to A + A' title='A_2 &#92;to A + A' class='latex' /></p>
<p>Of course these rates will depend on various things, but we&#8217;re treating them as fixed.</p>
<p>The rate equation lets us find the equilibrium in the limit of large numbers of atoms.  In this limit, we&#8217;ve seen the number of diatomic molecules is proportional to the <i>square</i> of the number of lone atoms.    So, the set of equilibria forms half a parabola:</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cdisplaystyle%7B+%5Cfrac%7Bx_1%5E2%7D%7Bx_2%7D+%3D+%5Cfrac%7B%5Calpha%7D%7B%5Cbeta%7D%2C+%5Cqquad+x_1%2C+x_2+%5Cge+0+%7D+&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = &#92;frac{&#92;alpha}{&#92;beta}, &#92;qquad x_1, x_2 &#92;ge 0 } ' title='&#92;displaystyle{ &#92;frac{x_1^2}{x_2} = &#92;frac{&#92;alpha}{&#92;beta}, &#92;qquad x_1, x_2 &#92;ge 0 } ' class='latex' /></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a one-parameter group of symmetries:</p>
<p><img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%28x_1%2C+x_2%29+%5Cmapsto+%28e%5Es+x_1%2C+e%5E%7B2s%7D+x_2%29&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='(x_1, x_2) &#92;mapsto (e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)' title='(x_1, x_2) &#92;mapsto (e^s x_1, e^{2s} x_2)' class='latex' /></p>
<p>that maps this parabola to itself.  For example, we can multiply the number of lone atoms by 1.5 and multiply the number of molecules by 2.25.  </p>
<p>More surprisingly, this symmetry exists even when we consider small numbers of atoms and molecules, where we treat these numbers as integers instead of real numbers.  If we have 3 atoms, we can&#8217;t multiply the number of atoms by 1.5.  So this is a bit shocking at first!</p>
<p>The trick is to treat the gas stochastically using the master equation rather than deterministically using the rate equation.  What our symmetry does is multiply the relative probability of finding our container of gas in a given state by a factor of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=e%5Es&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='e^s' title='e^s' class='latex' /> for each lone atom, and by a factor of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=e%5E%7B2s%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='e^{2s}' title='e^{2s}' class='latex' /> for each molecule.</p>
<p>This symmetry commutes with time evolution as given by the master equation.  And for probability distributions that are products of Poisson distributions, this symmetry has the effect of multiplying the <i>mean</i> number of lone atoms by <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=e%5Es&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='e^s' title='e^s' class='latex' />, and the <i>mean</i> number of molecules by <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=e%5E%7B2s%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=333333&amp;s=0' alt='e^{2s}' title='e^{2s}' class='latex' />.</p>
<p>But as you note, this symmetry the property that if we start in a state with a <i>definite</i> total number of atoms (that is, lone atoms plus twice the number of molecules), it will map us to another state with the same total number of molecules!  </p>
<p>And if we start in a state with a definite number of lone atoms <i>and</i> a definite number of molecules, the symmetry will leave this state completely unchanged!</p>
<p>These facts sound paradoxical at first, but of course they&#8217;re not.  They&#8217;re just a bit weird.</p>
<p>In fact they&#8217;re a lot like this other weird fact.  If we take a quantum system and start it off in an eigenstate of energy, it will never change, except for an unobservable phase.  Every state is a superposition of energy eigenstates.  So you might think that nothing can ever change in quantum mechanics.  But that&#8217;s wrong: the phases that are unobservable in a single energy eigenstate become observable <i>relative</i> phases in a superposition.</p>
<p>Indeed the math is exactly the same, except now we&#8217;re multiplying relative probabilities by positive real numbers, instead of multiplying relative amplitudes by complex numbers!</p>
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