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	<title>Comments on: Melting Arctic Sea Ice</title>
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		<title>By: Giampiero Campa</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-20242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giampiero Campa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2012 02:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-20242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So there have been proposals to &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;move&lt;/a&gt; the earth to an &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.springerlink.com/content/r2526108gl6kl373/?MUD=MP&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;outer orbit&lt;/a&gt;, but all considered (in light of the fact that a runaway greenhouse is going to eventually happen), perhaps it makes more sense to put a large enough body at the L1 point ? This perhaps can protect us from a runaway greenhouse, but i wonder if can work also later on when the sun is going to become a red giant, probably not ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there have been proposals to <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0102126" rel="nofollow">move</a> the earth to an <a href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/r2526108gl6kl373/?MUD=MP" rel="nofollow">outer orbit</a>, but all considered (in light of the fact that a runaway greenhouse is going to eventually happen), perhaps it makes more sense to put a large enough body at the L1 point ? This perhaps can protect us from a runaway greenhouse, but i wonder if can work also later on when the sun is going to become a red giant, probably not &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-20205</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-20205</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/09/arctic-sea-ice-extent-settles-at-record-seasonal-minimum/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the graph issued by the NSIDC&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/09/arctic-sea-ice-extent-settles-at-record-seasonal-minimum/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
&lt;img width=&quot;550&quot; src=&quot;http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2012/09/N_20120916_stddev_timeseries2.png&quot; /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s take a look at <a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/09/arctic-sea-ice-extent-settles-at-record-seasonal-minimum/" rel="nofollow">the graph issued by the NSIDC</a>:</p>
<p><a href="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/2012/09/arctic-sea-ice-extent-settles-at-record-seasonal-minimum/" rel="nofollow"><br />
<img width="550" src="http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/files/2012/09/N_20120916_stddev_timeseries2.png" /></a></p>
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		<title>By: davidtweed</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-20178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidtweed]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2012 09:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-20178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to note that National Snow and Ice Data Center has declared that the summer melt season has very probably ended on 18 September with an arctic sea ice extent of 3.41 million square kilometers. That&#039;s apparently half the average minumum over the last 30 years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to note that National Snow and Ice Data Center has declared that the summer melt season has very probably ended on 18 September with an arctic sea ice extent of 3.41 million square kilometers. That&#8217;s apparently half the average minumum over the last 30 years.</p>
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		<title>By: nad</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19964</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wikipedia&lt;/a&gt; the reflectivity of the water of the oceans  actually seems to be generally smaller than that of eg deserts, but I am not sure how much &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ceres_2003_2004_clear_sky_total_sky_albedo.png&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this image&lt;/a&gt; is based on measurement. So if the oceans should turn into deserts then by looking at this it seems that earth would absorb less solar radiation (i.e. it seems evaporating oceans would give by this a lowering contribution to the earth surface temperature)

You wrote 
&lt;blockquote&gt;If the oceans evaporate, I believe the whole Earth will be covered by clouds and its reflectivity, or ‘albedo’, will increase. Right now the (warming) greenhouse effect of clouds is about half their (cooling) albedo effect. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I only looked briefly into the sections you mentioned, they write (3a):

&lt;blockquote&gt;Although it seems quite unlikely, a case of more widespread and larger droplet size high clouds or good gaseous absorbers in the water vapour window and a reduction in low clouds could, in principle, increase the absorbed solar radiation and decrease the radiation limit. Without better understanding whether such changes are possible, we cannot totally rule out a runaway greenhouse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So it seems rather that if clouds would form at higher altitudes (and if the temperature of the troposphere would rise and the earth surface temperature would stay as it is or get lower then if &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_base&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I understand correcty&lt;/a&gt; the clouds would be higher) than these may have larger droplets and thus they may actually have a lower albedo and it may eventually be so low that the greenhouse effect of clouds may get even bigger than the cooling cloud albedo effect, which would result in a runaway greenhouse. :O]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albedo" rel="nofollow">wikipedia</a> the reflectivity of the water of the oceans  actually seems to be generally smaller than that of eg deserts, but I am not sure how much <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ceres_2003_2004_clear_sky_total_sky_albedo.png" rel="nofollow">this image</a> is based on measurement. So if the oceans should turn into deserts then by looking at this it seems that earth would absorb less solar radiation (i.e. it seems evaporating oceans would give by this a lowering contribution to the earth surface temperature)</p>
<p>You wrote </p>
<blockquote><p>If the oceans evaporate, I believe the whole Earth will be covered by clouds and its reflectivity, or ‘albedo’, will increase. Right now the (warming) greenhouse effect of clouds is about half their (cooling) albedo effect. </p></blockquote>
<p>I only looked briefly into the sections you mentioned, they write (3a):</p>
<blockquote><p>Although it seems quite unlikely, a case of more widespread and larger droplet size high clouds or good gaseous absorbers in the water vapour window and a reduction in low clouds could, in principle, increase the absorbed solar radiation and decrease the radiation limit. Without better understanding whether such changes are possible, we cannot totally rule out a runaway greenhouse.</p></blockquote>
<p>So it seems rather that if clouds would form at higher altitudes (and if the temperature of the troposphere would rise and the earth surface temperature would stay as it is or get lower then if <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_base" rel="nofollow">I understand correcty</a> the clouds would be higher) than these may have larger droplets and thus they may actually have a lower albedo and it may eventually be so low that the greenhouse effect of clouds may get even bigger than the cooling cloud albedo effect, which would result in a runaway greenhouse. :O</p>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 23:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the oceans evaporate, I believe the whole Earth will be covered by clouds and its reflectivity, or &#039;albedo&#039;, will increase.  Right now the (warming) greenhouse effect of clouds is about half their (cooling) albedo effect.  However, this paper does not go into clouds in detail, and they&#039;re quite tricky.  So, as the authors point out, people should study some of these questions in more detail.

Take a look at sections 3a), b) and c).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the oceans evaporate, I believe the whole Earth will be covered by clouds and its reflectivity, or &#8216;albedo&#8217;, will increase.  Right now the (warming) greenhouse effect of clouds is about half their (cooling) albedo effect.  However, this paper does not go into clouds in detail, and they&#8217;re quite tricky.  So, as the authors point out, people should study some of these questions in more detail.</p>
<p>Take a look at sections 3a), b) and c).</p>
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		<title>By: nad</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19759</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[nad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John wrote:

   &lt;blockquote&gt; “What’s more relevant is what they call the ‘moist greenhouse’, in which enough of the oceans evaporate to make water vapor a major constituent of the troposphere.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

On a first glance I couldn&#039;t find a good overview about the reflectivity of different earth surfaces, but I could imagine that if enough of the oceans evaporate then this could lead to quite an increase of the amount of solar radiation absorbed by the Earth from its current value of 240 watts/meter2 to a larger value…..where I hope that this value is not going over the above mentioned 300 watts/meter2……

Did the authors say something on that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p> “What’s more relevant is what they call the ‘moist greenhouse’, in which enough of the oceans evaporate to make water vapor a major constituent of the troposphere.”</p></blockquote>
<p>On a first glance I couldn&#8217;t find a good overview about the reflectivity of different earth surfaces, but I could imagine that if enough of the oceans evaporate then this could lead to quite an increase of the amount of solar radiation absorbed by the Earth from its current value of 240 watts/meter2 to a larger value…..where I hope that this value is not going over the above mentioned 300 watts/meter2……</p>
<p>Did the authors say something on that?</p>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19757</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 07:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I read the paper more carefully today and it&#039;s clear the more relevant scenario is &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; what Goldblatt and Watson call the &#039;runaway greenhouse&#039;, a runaway process where the atmosphere heats up to 1400 kelvin, when it becomes hot enough for outgoing radiation to avoid the frequencies that water vapor likes to absorb..   According to their calculations, this  can&#039;t be caused by increased CO&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; concentrations, only by raising the amount of solar radiation absorbed by the Earth from its current value of 240 watts/meter&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt; to the larger value of 300 watts/meter&lt;sup&gt;2&lt;/sup&gt;.

What&#039;s more relevant is what they call the &#039;moist greenhouse&#039;, in which enough of the oceans evaporate to make water vapor a major constituent of the troposphere. They estimate this could be caused by raising the CO&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt; concentration from its current value of 390 ppm to the much higher value of 10,000 ppm (by volume).  This is apparently higher than could be achieved by burning all &#039;conventional&#039; fossil fuels, but perhaps it&#039;s achievable if we burn all tar sands, methane clathrates, and so on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the paper more carefully today and it&#8217;s clear the more relevant scenario is <i>not</i> what Goldblatt and Watson call the &#8216;runaway greenhouse&#8217;, a runaway process where the atmosphere heats up to 1400 kelvin, when it becomes hot enough for outgoing radiation to avoid the frequencies that water vapor likes to absorb..   According to their calculations, this  can&#8217;t be caused by increased CO<sub>2</sub> concentrations, only by raising the amount of solar radiation absorbed by the Earth from its current value of 240 watts/meter<sup>2</sup> to the larger value of 300 watts/meter<sup>2</sup>.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s more relevant is what they call the &#8216;moist greenhouse&#8217;, in which enough of the oceans evaporate to make water vapor a major constituent of the troposphere. They estimate this could be caused by raising the CO<sub>2</sub> concentration from its current value of 390 ppm to the much higher value of 10,000 ppm (by volume).  This is apparently higher than could be achieved by burning all &#8216;conventional&#8217; fossil fuels, but perhaps it&#8217;s achievable if we burn all tar sands, methane clathrates, and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: Giampiero Campa</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giampiero Campa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2012 06:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, thanks a lot, this is great stuff! I will definitely read it. 

I have glanced at page 12 and things seem to be explained clearly already over there, but i want to understand Figure 5 better, so i&#039;ll read it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, thanks a lot, this is great stuff! I will definitely read it. </p>
<p>I have glanced at page 12 and things seem to be explained clearly already over there, but i want to understand Figure 5 better, so i&#8217;ll read it.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Week of GW News, September 9, 2012 &#8211; A Few Things Ill Considered</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Week of GW News, September 9, 2012 &#8211; A Few Things Ill Considered]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 13:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] 2012/09/05: JCBaez: Melting Arctic Sea Ice [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 2012/09/05: JCBaez: Melting Arctic Sea Ice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Baez</title>
		<link>http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2012/09/05/melting-arctic-sea-ice/#comment-19705</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Baez]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 04:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/?p=11970#comment-19705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Giampiero wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
I have read somewhere that in one billion years or so the sun will shine 10% more, and that will trigger a runaway green house effect resulting in evaporation of the oceans.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right.  People argue about when this will happen---I&#039;ve seen estimates of 1 or 2 billion years---but at some point it&#039;ll happen, unless we do something.    And the real bummer is that when this happens, some of the H&lt;sub&gt;2&lt;/sub&gt;O in the upper atmosphere will photodissociate, and the hydrogen will slowly get lost to outer space, so eventually the planet will lose a lot of its water.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
So why are we sure that this will not happen in the next millennium if we burn all available fossil fuels ? 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uxfiuKB_R8&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;James Hansen believes it could&lt;/a&gt;, but most experts believe it&#039;s unlikely.  This paper seems to represent the consensus view:

&#8226; Colin Goldblatt, Andrew J. Watson, &lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.1593&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Runaway Greenhouse: implications for future climate change, geoengineering and planetary atmospheres&lt;/a&gt;.

However, they write: &quot;In the event that our analysis is wrong, we would be left with the situation in which only geoengineering could save us.&quot;  

You should definitely read this paper, Giampiero.  Me too---I just discovered it!  It&#039;s quite technical, but it tries to give a clear overview of a rather complex problem.  Let me just quote some, as an appetizer:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
It is a common misconception that the runaway greenhouse is a simple extension of the familiar water vapour feedback. As the planet warms more water evaporates. Water vapour is a greenhouse gas, so this enhances the warming (a positive feedback). Accelerating this, by implication, would boil the entire ocean. Historically, this possibility was discussed by Sagan (1960) and Gold (1964), but some of the earliest modern-era climate models (Manabe &amp; Wetherald, 1967) showed that while water vapour feedback is an important positive feedback for Earth, it is not a runaway feedback.

In fact, the physics of the runaway greenhouse is rather different to “ordinary” water vapour feedback. There exist certain limits which set the maximum amount of outgoing thermal (longwave) radiation which can be emitted from a moist atmosphere. In the ordinary regime in which Earth resides at present, an increase in surface temperature causes the planet to emit more radiative energy to space, which cools the surface and maintains energy balance. However as a limit on the emission of thermal radiation is approached, the surface and lower atmosphere may warm, but no more radiation can escape the upper atmosphere to space. This is the runaway greenhouse: surface temperature will increase rapidly, finally reaching equilibrium again only when the surface temperature reaches around 1400K and emits radiation in the near-infrared, where water vapour is not a good greenhouse gas. Along the way, the entire ocean evaporates.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;div align=&quot;center&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.technologyreview.com/view/426608/how-likely-is-a-runaway-greenhouse-effect-on/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/files/79776/Runaway%20greenhouse.png&quot; /&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
In this section we review the physics of the runaway greenhouse in detail. Our theoretical framework follows Nakajima et al. (1992).  Whilst Nakajima et al. (1992) was very formal and mathematical, our description here is more qualitative.  We begin by describing three different “limits” on the outgoing longwave radiation. Whilst we find it useful to group these together under a single umbrella term we emphasize that the physical character of them is rather different. Limit 1, the &lt;b&gt;black body upper limit&lt;/b&gt;, is the maximum radiation that any planet of given surface temperature can emit; this varies with temperature. It does not lead to a runaway greenhouse, but is included for context. Limit 2, the &lt;b&gt;moist stratosphere upper limit&lt;/b&gt;, is the maximum amount of radiation which can be transferred by a moist stratosphere; this is invariant with temperature, so can lead to a runaway greenhouse. Limit 3, the &lt;b&gt;moist troposphere asymptotic limit&lt;/b&gt; is the amount of radiation which a thick, pure water vapour atmosphere will emit; the radiation from any thick water-rich atmosphere will tend towards this asymptotic limit. It is invariant with temperature, so can lead to a runaway greenhouse.  We then describe the changes which occur when increasing temperature in both runaway and moist greenhouses. 

Understanding the runaway greenhouse requires familiarity with many aspects of atmospheric radiative transfer and thermodynamics. Given the interdisciplinary interest in this topic, we summarise the necessary background material in Appendix A.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giampiero wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>
I have read somewhere that in one billion years or so the sun will shine 10% more, and that will trigger a runaway green house effect resulting in evaporation of the oceans.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Right.  People argue about when this will happen&#8212;I&#8217;ve seen estimates of 1 or 2 billion years&#8212;but at some point it&#8217;ll happen, unless we do something.    And the real bummer is that when this happens, some of the H<sub>2</sub>O in the upper atmosphere will photodissociate, and the hydrogen will slowly get lost to outer space, so eventually the planet will lose a lot of its water.</p>
<blockquote><p>
So why are we sure that this will not happen in the next millennium if we burn all available fossil fuels ?
</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uxfiuKB_R8" rel="nofollow">James Hansen believes it could</a>, but most experts believe it&#8217;s unlikely.  This paper seems to represent the consensus view:</p>
<p>&bull; Colin Goldblatt, Andrew J. Watson, <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.1593" rel="nofollow">The Runaway Greenhouse: implications for future climate change, geoengineering and planetary atmospheres</a>.</p>
<p>However, they write: &#8220;In the event that our analysis is wrong, we would be left with the situation in which only geoengineering could save us.&#8221;  </p>
<p>You should definitely read this paper, Giampiero.  Me too&#8212;I just discovered it!  It&#8217;s quite technical, but it tries to give a clear overview of a rather complex problem.  Let me just quote some, as an appetizer:</p>
<blockquote><p>
It is a common misconception that the runaway greenhouse is a simple extension of the familiar water vapour feedback. As the planet warms more water evaporates. Water vapour is a greenhouse gas, so this enhances the warming (a positive feedback). Accelerating this, by implication, would boil the entire ocean. Historically, this possibility was discussed by Sagan (1960) and Gold (1964), but some of the earliest modern-era climate models (Manabe &amp; Wetherald, 1967) showed that while water vapour feedback is an important positive feedback for Earth, it is not a runaway feedback.</p>
<p>In fact, the physics of the runaway greenhouse is rather different to “ordinary” water vapour feedback. There exist certain limits which set the maximum amount of outgoing thermal (longwave) radiation which can be emitted from a moist atmosphere. In the ordinary regime in which Earth resides at present, an increase in surface temperature causes the planet to emit more radiative energy to space, which cools the surface and maintains energy balance. However as a limit on the emission of thermal radiation is approached, the surface and lower atmosphere may warm, but no more radiation can escape the upper atmosphere to space. This is the runaway greenhouse: surface temperature will increase rapidly, finally reaching equilibrium again only when the surface temperature reaches around 1400K and emits radiation in the near-infrared, where water vapour is not a good greenhouse gas. Along the way, the entire ocean evaporates.
</p></blockquote>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.technologyreview.com/view/426608/how-likely-is-a-runaway-greenhouse-effect-on/" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/files/79776/Runaway%20greenhouse.png" /></a>
</div>
<blockquote><p>
In this section we review the physics of the runaway greenhouse in detail. Our theoretical framework follows Nakajima et al. (1992).  Whilst Nakajima et al. (1992) was very formal and mathematical, our description here is more qualitative.  We begin by describing three different “limits” on the outgoing longwave radiation. Whilst we find it useful to group these together under a single umbrella term we emphasize that the physical character of them is rather different. Limit 1, the <b>black body upper limit</b>, is the maximum radiation that any planet of given surface temperature can emit; this varies with temperature. It does not lead to a runaway greenhouse, but is included for context. Limit 2, the <b>moist stratosphere upper limit</b>, is the maximum amount of radiation which can be transferred by a moist stratosphere; this is invariant with temperature, so can lead to a runaway greenhouse. Limit 3, the <b>moist troposphere asymptotic limit</b> is the amount of radiation which a thick, pure water vapour atmosphere will emit; the radiation from any thick water-rich atmosphere will tend towards this asymptotic limit. It is invariant with temperature, so can lead to a runaway greenhouse.  We then describe the changes which occur when increasing temperature in both runaway and moist greenhouses. </p>
<p>Understanding the runaway greenhouse requires familiarity with many aspects of atmospheric radiative transfer and thermodynamics. Given the interdisciplinary interest in this topic, we summarise the necessary background material in Appendix A.
</p></blockquote>
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